In this episode we discuss how effective Red Flag Laws are.
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Well, welcome to the live to shoot podcast. My name is Jeff Dole and I have been a licensed firearm dealer for the last 14 years in this podcast. We talk about all things related to the second amendment, as well as my throwing sports story or something going on in my life. So welcome. Welcome. Welcome. I'm trying to get this podcast out a little earlier. This week, then I normally do my great niece who is three years old, is gonna come and stay with us for a few days. And when that happens all, all schedules, all habits, all Routines go out the out the window and we spoil her, but yes, we also are subject to, to her, her schedule a little bit. And so just trying to knock out a few things so we can just spend as much time with her and, and have as much time to, to just enjoy the time we have with her. We, she is a special little thing. So. Red flag gloss red flag laws. That is hard to say what are those? They, they are all over the news since Yalda shooting and such, you know, people en clamoring. We just had the president pass the bipartisan safer community act of 2022, which I guess provided. Almost 750 million in grants to dates. If they implement red flag laws and, you know, there's just a lot of talk and, and we've got currently there is the federal extreme risk protection order, which set in committee since last year. And then all of a sudden it AF falling leave all day shooting. It flew out of committee got passed by the house. And now it's, it's been sitting in the, in the, in the Senate, but it's basically says that, you know you know, allow people, family members and law enforcement to request you know, basically it's somebody's firearms be confiscated. So what are red flag loss? There's a variety of different flavors of 'em, but basically it allows somebody to petition the court to issue a protective order requiring. The respondent to immediately relinquish all their firearms ammunition and giving law enforcement, the authority to seize those firearms from people who are deemed by the court of the judge to be a danger to themselves or others, you might hear 'em called extreme risk protection orders. Violence restraining orders, firearm restraining orders, orders for protection against high risk behaviors and lethal violence, protection orders. All those are essentially the same thing and there's a lot of problems with the red flag laws. One primarily is. In basically they're unconstitutional. There's a limited due process. And, and there have been cases where people have relinquished their firearms because of the red flag law. Somebody put an order in, they went through the process with the judge. The judge said, no, this person's fine. And law enforcement still wouldn't give 'em their firearms back. So it gives a lot of leeway and allows really, basically for the government to just stamp, stop all over our rights. But then the other problem is do they work? That's what everybody's clamoring. We, you know, let's, let's. You know, if people are are mentally troubled. And you know, when you look at the perpetrators in some of these recent mass shootings that they, the people were disturbed and, and there's a long history of it. And, and, you know, we keep talking about the guns, you know, take away the guns, take away the guns, but it, this is really more of a mental health problem. But. The red flag laws don't really go to do anything about that. They don't do anything about the mental health issue. They just take away the guns and really just leave the individual out there, but do they work well? Let's find out. So the MacGyver Institute love that name. MacGyver Institute is a think tank in Wisconsin and they did a study and they looked at some of the recent ones that have happened. So we've had the. Shooting in, in Highland park, Illinois during the 4th of July this year. And they, eight people were killed. 29 were ruined and in Illinois they have a red flag loss. And since E the Illinois red flag loss, didn't catch him. Good to assume that the a federal red flag log would not have caught him his threats, you know, this Creo is I think his name made threats against his family himself and the, and in 2019, and the police actually got involved. They took away his knives from him at the time and, and filed a clear and present danger report. However, neither family nor the police ever followed through. So again, he fell through the cracks, nothing, you know, red flag laws that were in exist. Didn't think anything to do with him? Aldi in may of 2022, where 22 people, horribly, most of them kids were killed 17 wounded and the shooter Salvador Ramos. He was killed at the scene. Now that was here in Texas. We don't have any red flag laws. But he did not have a criminal record. Had not had any type of mental health rec record. He. Lived with his grandparents. And first thing we almost did that day was he killed his grandmother. And his grandfather said that there were no flags prior to the shooting. He didn't apparently didn't know anything about the guns he had bought or, or any of the ammunition he stockpiled. So again, red flag loss would not have done anything because. The people closest to him, didn't see anything wrong just before that was in Buffalo may 14th where 10 people were killed three wounded in a grocery store. And again, you know, Buffalo has red flag laws, which failed to prevent this shooting as well. This. Perpetrator was long known to police. They investigated him years a year earlier as he threatened fellow students. He went online and bragged about how he had lied to the police and beat the mental health evaluation. And he maintained a a public diary about what he was gonna do and where he openly worked out his desire to conduct a mass shooting. But the New York red dialogue completely failed to stop this. because nobody reported it. Nobody turned him in. Nobody utilized it again. What's the point? San Jose back in 2021 where a valley transportation authority the shooter See, he killed 10 people in that one. And again, his in San Jose, you know, obviously they've got red flag laws in California. And then, and that, that failed to prevent him. His ex-wife said he had talked about killing his coworkers starting 10 years ago. But she never believed him. His ex-girlfriend said he had anger issues. He had been frustrated at work for years and frequently complained about the unfair treatment. But again and then in, prior to that, he was making racist comments and everything like that. But none of his coworkers who survived were surprised, but nobody went along and actually went through the process to do anything about it. Again, it failed Indianapolis, April 20, 21, 9 people killed seven wounded at a FedEx facility. The Indiana has red flag laws already. He was reported as being suicidal and the police took away the family shotgun, but they never asked for a back. And so the police closed the case. They could have filed a petition, but ho was able to later again to legally purchase another rifle that he used in the shooting. So they kind of went through the process. They took away the gun, but. Nothing ever prevented him from going back and, and shooting Boulder, Colorado, same thing. Again, call Colorado has read flag laws, 10 people killed again. He was people recognized that he had issues. He was on FBI's radar. So because they were investigating somebody else. But again, nobody pursued it so on and on and on. So are these red fires, do they work. Doesn't sound like it. Now the MacGyver Institute also did a study and this is, this is really interesting. The average number of mass shootings in states with red flag laws. Are higher than the average number of mass shootings per state that don't have red flag loss. So in 20 22, 7 0.4, an average of 7.4 mass shootings have occurred so far for those with red flags versus 5.9 2021 16.4. With red flag laws versus 11.8 and in 2020 13.9 shootings versus 10.5 of those states that don't have red flag laws. So over the last three years, states with red flag laws had more shootings than those without. The average deaths are higher, obviously. No more shootings, more deaths, 2022. If you have red file off average death in a mass shooting. And then, and that was 8, 8, 8 versus 6.2. 2021 15.2 versus 12.9 9.8. And in 2022, it was very similar 9.8 versus 10.3. So here we have multiple instances where we show that mass red flag laws don't work. They didn't stop these shootings. And when you look at the numbers, The, the statistics are actually worse. Now, what is my theory? Well, one, most of these states that have red flag laws are blue states. They don't have, they have tighter gun laws potentially, and they have more liberal governors and mayors and they, they don't do anything to stop crime. They don't do anything to enforce it. And. Again, our citizens aren't as probably well armed to help protect themselves. And it's. A shooting waiting to happen. And red flag laws are showing that they don't have, they don't have any effectiveness. So what's my rant. Don't listen to 'em when they start clamoring about red flag laws and how it's common sense. It's not common sense. It's just another attempt to take away our guns, get people on the list that may or may not need to be on those lists. And. Why start in trying to put in things that don't work, let's go and start enforcing the things that do let's kick the criminals before they become mass shooters. And it's kind of the broken windows theory. These guys in most cases are done something. And when you look at most of these instances, they were on somebody's radar. Prior to that serious issues, but nobody did anything. Nobody kept an eye on them. So again, don't let, 'em fool you in thinking that red flag laws are a solution. They're not, we have to keep fighting. Don't know what's gonna happen in this one. Bill that's stuck. It seems to be stuck in the Senate. Probably not gonna go anywhere. But they're not gonna quit trying. They're not gonna quit trying. So thank you for listening. Have a great rest of your week weekend, and I will talk to you again later.